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	<title>Comments on: Is BT Just A Sales Tool?</title>
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		<title>By: A fishing fleet without nets &#171; Brand.net</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/networking/is-bt-just-a-sales-tool/#comment-16798</link>
		<dc:creator>A fishing fleet without nets &#171; Brand.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 21:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12419#comment-16798</guid>
		<description>[...] Secondly, comScore highlights the tradeoff between targeting and scale. This tradeoff is intuitively obvious, but often overlooked. Equally often, credulous buyers willingly suspend disbelief in favor of a nice-sounding pitch. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Secondly, comScore highlights the tradeoff between targeting and scale. This tradeoff is intuitively obvious, but often overlooked. Equally often, credulous buyers willingly suspend disbelief in favor of a nice-sounding pitch. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Simplifying the Narrative &#171; Brand.net</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/networking/is-bt-just-a-sales-tool/#comment-8862</link>
		<dc:creator>Simplifying the Narrative &#171; Brand.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 04:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] deliver anything like that type of scale; we’re not delivering 50M impressions in a week to 18M “competitive peanut butter bakers” any time [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] deliver anything like that type of scale; we’re not delivering 50M impressions in a week to 18M “competitive peanut butter bakers” any time [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Is BT Just a Sales Tool? (Redux) &#171; Brand.net</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/networking/is-bt-just-a-sales-tool/#comment-5747</link>
		<dc:creator>Is BT Just a Sales Tool? (Redux) &#171; Brand.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12419#comment-5747</guid>
		<description>[...] post is a continuation of my article in last Monday’s AdExchanger about some serious challenges with BT for Brand marketers.  Interested readers should start there [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post is a continuation of my article in last Monday’s AdExchanger about some serious challenges with BT for Brand marketers.  Interested readers should start there [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul B</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/networking/is-bt-just-a-sales-tool/#comment-4148</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12419#comment-4148</guid>
		<description>So apparently if you write something negative it gets taken down.  So having used this tool and saw penetration actually affect penetration and buy rate actually drive buy rate something must be working.  It has delivered the best ROI we&#039;ve seen and it WORKS!!!  So, Andy why are you out here selling against it.  Had your sales reps tell me that what you offer is exactly like Yahoo Consumer Direct.  If it is so bad why does your sales rep keep pushing the match against this.  Hypocrit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So apparently if you write something negative it gets taken down.  So having used this tool and saw penetration actually affect penetration and buy rate actually drive buy rate something must be working.  It has delivered the best ROI we've seen and it WORKS!!!  So, Andy why are you out here selling against it.  Had your sales reps tell me that what you offer is exactly like Yahoo Consumer Direct.  If it is so bad why does your sales rep keep pushing the match against this.  Hypocrit.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Atherton</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/networking/is-bt-just-a-sales-tool/#comment-4042</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Atherton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12419#comment-4042</guid>
		<description>Great dialog folks!  

A couple comments/clarifications to add to the thread:

@ Jeff Braddock: The approach is described is absolutely not retargeting.  As I explicitly pointed out, individual users are not retargeted.  A behavioral profile is constructed based on a small core of purchase data and this profile is used to identify target users.  My point is not that look-alike modeling isn&#039;t a valid approach.  My point is that BT isn&#039;t the only way to &quot;deliver target audiences&quot;.  &quot;moms aged 25-54&quot; is a target audience, it&#039;s just not a precise a target as BT sales forces like to claim.  But as the example shows, the claims are far beyond the reality and based on the data that I have seen BT doesn&#039;t outperform other ways of delivering target audiences if the goal is driving offline sales.

@ Alex English: Good question.  Fortunately, Nielsen did release normative data on a 10/6/09 Citi Research conference call.  John Burbank, CEO of Nielsen Online, quoted the average ROI across the &gt;200 offline impact studies they have run at 157%.  That&#039;s a useful benchmark.  I do want to reiterate though that this article is in no way intended as an attack on Nielsen.  As I say in the article itself, I think the work they are doing with their major media partners is in many ways the gold standard of BT.  That&#039;s why it provides such a useful case study in the limitations of the approach.

Keep &#039;em coming!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great dialog folks!  </p>
<p>A couple comments/clarifications to add to the thread:</p>
<p>@ Jeff Braddock: The approach is described is absolutely not retargeting.  As I explicitly pointed out, individual users are not retargeted.  A behavioral profile is constructed based on a small core of purchase data and this profile is used to identify target users.  My point is not that look-alike modeling isn't a valid approach.  My point is that BT isn't the only way to "deliver target audiences".  "moms aged 25-54" is a target audience, it's just not a precise a target as BT sales forces like to claim.  But as the example shows, the claims are far beyond the reality and based on the data that I have seen BT doesn't outperform other ways of delivering target audiences if the goal is driving offline sales.</p>
<p>@ Alex English: Good question.  Fortunately, Nielsen did release normative data on a 10/6/09 Citi Research conference call.  John Burbank, CEO of Nielsen Online, quoted the average ROI across the &gt;200 offline impact studies they have run at 157%.  That's a useful benchmark.  I do want to reiterate though that this article is in no way intended as an attack on Nielsen.  As I say in the article itself, I think the work they are doing with their major media partners is in many ways the gold standard of BT.  That's why it provides such a useful case study in the limitations of the approach.</p>
<p>Keep 'em coming!</p>
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		<title>By: Alex English</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/networking/is-bt-just-a-sales-tool/#comment-4040</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex English</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12419#comment-4040</guid>
		<description>The fact that a sales person is out talking about targeting capabilities that don&#039;t exist (i.e. Peanut Butter Bakers) is pretty sketchy.  Having said that it&#039;s no surprise and isn&#039;t it par for the course.  Isn&#039;t ad sales a process of spinning what you have into gold?

Having said that I do this this example is unfair.  Let&#039;s say that the look-a-like models aren&#039;t delivering 3X ROI but the real question that isn&#039;t addressed in the example is, does the look-a-like modeled campaign deliver more ROI than a non-targeted campaign?  That&#039;s the unanswered question.  Nielsen needs to release some normative data so we can really understand the value of their targets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that a sales person is out talking about targeting capabilities that don't exist (i.e. Peanut Butter Bakers) is pretty sketchy.  Having said that it's no surprise and isn't it par for the course.  Isn't ad sales a process of spinning what you have into gold?</p>
<p>Having said that I do this this example is unfair.  Let's say that the look-a-like models aren't delivering 3X ROI but the real question that isn't addressed in the example is, does the look-a-like modeled campaign deliver more ROI than a non-targeted campaign?  That's the unanswered question.  Nielsen needs to release some normative data so we can really understand the value of their targets.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Braddock</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/networking/is-bt-just-a-sales-tool/#comment-3995</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Braddock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12419#comment-3995</guid>
		<description>Andy misses the mark here significantly on what the CPG advertiser was telling him. The issue with ad networks and the perceived value of BT is that ad networks aren&#039;t truly doing behavioral targeting.  These organizations are setup to arbitrage and optimize ROS media, not find target audiences.  His CPG contact&#039;s goal is to find audiences and nobody is fitting his bill.

What ad networks are selling is site retargeting, not behavioral targeted audiences.  To sell audiences, it requires companies like Andy&#039;s and his competitors to start investing in data.  That means not taking shortcuts using cheap data resources like Quova and Digital Element to get the incorrect ZIP+4 information and applying the wrong demographic and psychographic data points.  

In Andy&#039;s example, the point he misses is that Nielsen data will only work well if it can be matched properly.  Look-a-like models work in the offline, so there is not reason they won&#039;t work in the online world.  When the ad network refuses to invest in data that improves the matching, the campaign fails before it starts.

Bennett Zucker is correct that progress is being made in multi-variate targeting, and the limitations start and end with Ad Networks that simply display no interest in finding audiences.  CBS Interactive&#039;s recent decision to ban ad networks evidence enough that ad networks need to move towards audience targeting if they plan to survive past 2010.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy misses the mark here significantly on what the CPG advertiser was telling him. The issue with ad networks and the perceived value of BT is that ad networks aren't truly doing behavioral targeting.  These organizations are setup to arbitrage and optimize ROS media, not find target audiences.  His CPG contact's goal is to find audiences and nobody is fitting his bill.</p>
<p>What ad networks are selling is site retargeting, not behavioral targeted audiences.  To sell audiences, it requires companies like Andy's and his competitors to start investing in data.  That means not taking shortcuts using cheap data resources like Quova and Digital Element to get the incorrect ZIP+4 information and applying the wrong demographic and psychographic data points.  </p>
<p>In Andy's example, the point he misses is that Nielsen data will only work well if it can be matched properly.  Look-a-like models work in the offline, so there is not reason they won't work in the online world.  When the ad network refuses to invest in data that improves the matching, the campaign fails before it starts.</p>
<p>Bennett Zucker is correct that progress is being made in multi-variate targeting, and the limitations start and end with Ad Networks that simply display no interest in finding audiences.  CBS Interactive's recent decision to ban ad networks evidence enough that ad networks need to move towards audience targeting if they plan to survive past 2010.</p>
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		<title>By: CMB2009</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/networking/is-bt-just-a-sales-tool/#comment-3977</link>
		<dc:creator>CMB2009</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12419#comment-3977</guid>
		<description>The PB example used in the article indicts sales people that do not base their BT pitches and proposals in reality, not the idea of BT as a marketing practice.  There are two issues here:  1) Is BT actually being delivered as pitched, and 2) If so, does it work and/or is it worth the premium?  Number one might vary by sales organization.  Number 2 needs to be evaluated by much more than CTR or &quot;Actions.&quot;  There are many, many reasons why a &quot;Widget&quot; advertiser needs to pay the premium to reach &quot;Widget Enthusiasts&quot; independent of performance across that segment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The PB example used in the article indicts sales people that do not base their BT pitches and proposals in reality, not the idea of BT as a marketing practice.  There are two issues here:  1) Is BT actually being delivered as pitched, and 2) If so, does it work and/or is it worth the premium?  Number one might vary by sales organization.  Number 2 needs to be evaluated by much more than CTR or "Actions."  There are many, many reasons why a "Widget" advertiser needs to pay the premium to reach "Widget Enthusiasts" independent of performance across that segment.</p>
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		<title>By: zach coelius</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/networking/is-bt-just-a-sales-tool/#comment-3973</link>
		<dc:creator>zach coelius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12419#comment-3973</guid>
		<description>Beautiful straw man Andy.   I like the peanut butter example, a prime BT driven vertical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beautiful straw man Andy.   I like the peanut butter example, a prime BT driven vertical.</p>
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		<title>By: Bennett Zucker</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/networking/is-bt-just-a-sales-tool/#comment-3972</link>
		<dc:creator>Bennett Zucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12419#comment-3972</guid>
		<description>Andy, In its early incarnation, BT was absolutely a publisher&#039;s sales tool. Designed to help monetize hard to sell ads in general content, BT enabled news publishers, for example, to sell more space in news and sports to auto dealers who had already bought out the slim volume of auto ads available. As networks and data moved BT closer to center stage, it began to chunk off 15%-20%-25% of a given campaign budget.

BT was the &quot;it&quot; solution for a while, but over time it&#039;s become a tool of choice only for pure remarketing and special situations such as auto and travel. You&#039;re right that no one has produced credible evidence that BT has done a whole lot for most categories, least of all CPG, which requires far more predictable reach and frequency than targeting, by definition, can deliver.

I applaud your effort to shed some light here, especially given your experience at Yahoo, which is generally regarded as among the best practitioners of the art and science of targeting. 

I do think that the recent trend to multivariate targeting of audiences is a step in the right direction, but reaching television-like scale online is always going to be a big challenge for many ad categories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, In its early incarnation, BT was absolutely a publisher's sales tool. Designed to help monetize hard to sell ads in general content, BT enabled news publishers, for example, to sell more space in news and sports to auto dealers who had already bought out the slim volume of auto ads available. As networks and data moved BT closer to center stage, it began to chunk off 15%-20%-25% of a given campaign budget.</p>
<p>BT was the "it" solution for a while, but over time it's become a tool of choice only for pure remarketing and special situations such as auto and travel. You're right that no one has produced credible evidence that BT has done a whole lot for most categories, least of all CPG, which requires far more predictable reach and frequency than targeting, by definition, can deliver.</p>
<p>I applaud your effort to shed some light here, especially given your experience at Yahoo, which is generally regarded as among the best practitioners of the art and science of targeting. </p>
<p>I do think that the recent trend to multivariate targeting of audiences is a step in the right direction, but reaching television-like scale online is always going to be a big challenge for many ad categories.</p>
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