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	<title>Comments on: The Real Costs of Real-Time Bidding (RTB)</title>
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		<title>By: Ryan Hickman</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/real-costs-real-time-bidding-rtb/#comment-5025</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Hickman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 08:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree with the real time bidding statement being &#039;puffery&#039; and more costly.

As an advertiser first, transparency is king. My buying decisions are made in a group at a table in the marketing conference room. Before I even make a proposal to the group I need to know as much as possible - targeting, sites, prices, etc...

Even getting content out of daisy chains I don&#039;t think is an advertisers concern. Its these daisy chains that create a innovate market with new ways to reach customers. Its its the different targeting technologies, grooming algorithms, etc that are birthed from the way this market is tailored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the real time bidding statement being 'puffery' and more costly.</p>
<p>As an advertiser first, transparency is king. My buying decisions are made in a group at a table in the marketing conference room. Before I even make a proposal to the group I need to know as much as possible - targeting, sites, prices, etc...</p>
<p>Even getting content out of daisy chains I don't think is an advertisers concern. Its these daisy chains that create a innovate market with new ways to reach customers. Its its the different targeting technologies, grooming algorithms, etc that are birthed from the way this market is tailored.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Orloff</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/real-costs-real-time-bidding-rtb/#comment-4295</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Orloff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 05:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12357#comment-4295</guid>
		<description>Rob, 

excellent article.  I&#039;m curious where you see the Open X spot market on the continuum between RTB and presold campaigns.

Also, you write &quot;Because if your bid range was really narrow then it begs the question – why bother to do real-time bidding at all?&quot;

I can see 2 reasons.  One is, as you mention - price discovery : you must probe the spot market to know if you are paying a reasonable amount for presold campaigns, and the other is geotargeting - if I want mobile browser impressions within 100m of a Starbucks location, is a presold campaign really going to work for me right now ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, </p>
<p>excellent article.  I'm curious where you see the Open X spot market on the continuum between RTB and presold campaigns.</p>
<p>Also, you write "Because if your bid range was really narrow then it begs the question – why bother to do real-time bidding at all?"</p>
<p>I can see 2 reasons.  One is, as you mention - price discovery : you must probe the spot market to know if you are paying a reasonable amount for presold campaigns, and the other is geotargeting - if I want mobile browser impressions within 100m of a Starbucks location, is a presold campaign really going to work for me right now ?</p>
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		<title>By: John DeMayo</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/real-costs-real-time-bidding-rtb/#comment-4007</link>
		<dc:creator>John DeMayo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12357#comment-4007</guid>
		<description>A few thoughts:

-For most large scale ad servers, variable serve cost is less then $.01/CPM.

-The largest variable in this cost is normally bandwidth (of which there is essentially none for bidded impressions not purchased).

-The second largest variable cost is normally related to reporting (of which there is none or essentially none for bidded impressions not purchased). 

-I believe pre-serve decisioning / bidding is a minority component of the sub-$.01/CPM variable serve cost for most ad servers (so think $.001/CPM range as a ballpark for a RTB function - and that&#039;s without optimizing for a RTB environment, simply using more legacy ad server processes and their associated costs).

-This cost will be included into the smarter players algorithms, so that when it becomes cost-prohibitive, these undifferentiated / low success rate / less valuable impressions are filtered out beforehand instead of real-time decisioned on.  A smart algorithm could handle automatically bucketing impressions into larger groups, and understanding which of these it is cost-effective to RTB on, and which are not cost-effective to RTB on and therefore should be excluded or fall under more broad non-real-time bid strategies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few thoughts:</p>
<p>-For most large scale ad servers, variable serve cost is less then $.01/CPM.</p>
<p>-The largest variable in this cost is normally bandwidth (of which there is essentially none for bidded impressions not purchased).</p>
<p>-The second largest variable cost is normally related to reporting (of which there is none or essentially none for bidded impressions not purchased). </p>
<p>-I believe pre-serve decisioning / bidding is a minority component of the sub-$.01/CPM variable serve cost for most ad servers (so think $.001/CPM range as a ballpark for a RTB function - and that's without optimizing for a RTB environment, simply using more legacy ad server processes and their associated costs).</p>
<p>-This cost will be included into the smarter players algorithms, so that when it becomes cost-prohibitive, these undifferentiated / low success rate / less valuable impressions are filtered out beforehand instead of real-time decisioned on.  A smart algorithm could handle automatically bucketing impressions into larger groups, and understanding which of these it is cost-effective to RTB on, and which are not cost-effective to RTB on and therefore should be excluded or fall under more broad non-real-time bid strategies.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Leathern</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/real-costs-real-time-bidding-rtb/#comment-3920</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Leathern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12357#comment-3920</guid>
		<description>Yes efficiencies are not calculated here as I mentioned. My point is to be simplistic to get people thinking about it. I&#039;d love to see one of you guys take a cut at the estimated savings for us all to see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes efficiencies are not calculated here as I mentioned. My point is to be simplistic to get people thinking about it. I'd love to see one of you guys take a cut at the estimated savings for us all to see.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/real-costs-real-time-bidding-rtb/#comment-3918</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 21:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12357#comment-3918</guid>
		<description>Very good look at RTB but I thought one of the primary reasons for real-time bidding systems was to create new efficiencies at scale yet these new efficiencies are not accounted for in your calculations.  Factor them in and this is a very different story.  I have to second Zach&#039;s experience, we have also not seen the economics of RTB play out this way, quite the contrary in fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good look at RTB but I thought one of the primary reasons for real-time bidding systems was to create new efficiencies at scale yet these new efficiencies are not accounted for in your calculations.  Factor them in and this is a very different story.  I have to second Zach's experience, we have also not seen the economics of RTB play out this way, quite the contrary in fact.</p>
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		<title>By: Zach Coelius</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/real-costs-real-time-bidding-rtb/#comment-3899</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach Coelius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12357#comment-3899</guid>
		<description>I second what Brian says.  We have been bidding in real time for close to a year now on multiple exchanges and have not see the costs bear out the way Rob describes them.  If you build your system correctly the costs of bidding are vary outweighed by the money saved in efficiency and effectiveness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second what Brian says.  We have been bidding in real time for close to a year now on multiple exchanges and have not see the costs bear out the way Rob describes them.  If you build your system correctly the costs of bidding are vary outweighed by the money saved in efficiency and effectiveness.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/real-costs-real-time-bidding-rtb/#comment-3898</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12357#comment-3898</guid>
		<description>Rob you definitely have a good perspective here but a few things crossed my mind while reading your article.  

- Hardware and software costs go down over time.  Yes ad serving was 15 cents at one point but today it&#039;s almost free.  RTB allows for a lot of efficiencies on the human side where costs only go up.  There&#039;s no need for ad tags to be emailed as attachments and phone calls to be made to adjust CPMs.  The ability to dial up and down spend on the fly and on a per impression basis can save a lot of money elsewhere.  These costs are harder to quantify but they are material.  

- The model of assuming serving costs for impressions that are unfilled is not new.  Any tag that uses passbacks follows the same cost structure.  With some major ad networks filling at 20% on average, these costs have existed for a long time and are not unique to RTB.  

- Another misconception about RTB is that the way it&#039;s implemented is by the buyer plugging in to a huge pipe and seeing all impressions.   I don&#039;t know of a supply platform that is working in this way.  The reality is that there is pre-filtering with RTB too.  

- The largest contributor to RTB hype is the assumption that it&#039;s a silver bullet.  The reality is that we&#039;re all solving an enormous problem and RTB is another arrow in the quiver and we need all the arrows we can get.  It is going to fill a large need for both buyers and sellers but will not be the entire solution.  For publishers, mixing RTB with tag buys and audience data is going to be key for monetization in the coming years.  

Looking forward to seeing the RTB solution from CPM Advisors come to life!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob you definitely have a good perspective here but a few things crossed my mind while reading your article.  </p>
<p>- Hardware and software costs go down over time.  Yes ad serving was 15 cents at one point but today it's almost free.  RTB allows for a lot of efficiencies on the human side where costs only go up.  There's no need for ad tags to be emailed as attachments and phone calls to be made to adjust CPMs.  The ability to dial up and down spend on the fly and on a per impression basis can save a lot of money elsewhere.  These costs are harder to quantify but they are material.  </p>
<p>- The model of assuming serving costs for impressions that are unfilled is not new.  Any tag that uses passbacks follows the same cost structure.  With some major ad networks filling at 20% on average, these costs have existed for a long time and are not unique to RTB.  </p>
<p>- Another misconception about RTB is that the way it's implemented is by the buyer plugging in to a huge pipe and seeing all impressions.   I don't know of a supply platform that is working in this way.  The reality is that there is pre-filtering with RTB too.  </p>
<p>- The largest contributor to RTB hype is the assumption that it's a silver bullet.  The reality is that we're all solving an enormous problem and RTB is another arrow in the quiver and we need all the arrows we can get.  It is going to fill a large need for both buyers and sellers but will not be the entire solution.  For publishers, mixing RTB with tag buys and audience data is going to be key for monetization in the coming years.  </p>
<p>Looking forward to seeing the RTB solution from CPM Advisors come to life!</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Leathern</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/real-costs-real-time-bidding-rtb/#comment-3896</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Leathern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12357#comment-3896</guid>
		<description>Some good points certainly, Marc. On this topic I wish I had the luxuries I used to have as an analyst (though unfortunately writing overly long 40-page reports was something I got stick for back then :-)) to write much much more. A few quick thoughts though: 

The tradeoff between &quot;pre-bidding&quot; (static statement/filter of what you want) and actually bidding for something is very important, crucial. If you win few bids by bidding across a lot of inventory, your costs are high. If you pre-filter aggressively, then one may ask what the point of bidding at all is - except in cases where people are bidding against each other for data provided by specific data providers (less so retargeting, if that is mostly where an advertiser hands that to a single vendor) - so a bunch of folks will bid aggressively on the auto-bmw intender data etc. 

The other thing to keep in perspective that I mention with my comment about 15% of inventory, is that not only is the % of inventory going to RTB going to be small for a while, it&#039;s also going to be non-premium. Today that&#039;s typically all about the 6 to the nth impressions on a site. (That fact itself is not well priced in current systems BTW)

Getting premium inventory out of daisy chains and to be universally addressable and biddable is really the goal (for me and our advertisers), whether that requires RTB, or something else entirely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some good points certainly, Marc. On this topic I wish I had the luxuries I used to have as an analyst (though unfortunately writing overly long 40-page reports was something I got stick for back then <img src='http://www.adexchanger.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> ) to write much much more. A few quick thoughts though: </p>
<p>The tradeoff between "pre-bidding" (static statement/filter of what you want) and actually bidding for something is very important, crucial. If you win few bids by bidding across a lot of inventory, your costs are high. If you pre-filter aggressively, then one may ask what the point of bidding at all is - except in cases where people are bidding against each other for data provided by specific data providers (less so retargeting, if that is mostly where an advertiser hands that to a single vendor) - so a bunch of folks will bid aggressively on the auto-bmw intender data etc. </p>
<p>The other thing to keep in perspective that I mention with my comment about 15% of inventory, is that not only is the % of inventory going to RTB going to be small for a while, it's also going to be non-premium. Today that's typically all about the 6 to the nth impressions on a site. (That fact itself is not well priced in current systems BTW)</p>
<p>Getting premium inventory out of daisy chains and to be universally addressable and biddable is really the goal (for me and our advertisers), whether that requires RTB, or something else entirely.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/real-costs-real-time-bidding-rtb/#comment-3892</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adexchanger.com/?p=12357#comment-3892</guid>
		<description>Rob I think you are correct that the major aspect to be excited about is not the real time aspect of the exchange but the benefits that the centralization of vast amounts of inventory into a liquid market everyone can access will bring. Google&#039;s search auction proves the benefits of having an easy to access marketplace with enough parameters for marketers to segment from and drive their business.

Real time bidding matters when you have individual cookie level data and want to buy on that unique impression event. But I can think of many cases where you would be willing to reserve impressions in blocks for common data such as DMA/location, URL, site, etc. Perhaps a hybrid approach where most of the auction functions in set prices for clear segments (like keywords are to search) with special over-rides to bid for that exact impression itself based on unique data (re-targeting, 3rd party sources) would reduce the technological implementation cost and bring us closer to the end goal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob I think you are correct that the major aspect to be excited about is not the real time aspect of the exchange but the benefits that the centralization of vast amounts of inventory into a liquid market everyone can access will bring. Google's search auction proves the benefits of having an easy to access marketplace with enough parameters for marketers to segment from and drive their business.</p>
<p>Real time bidding matters when you have individual cookie level data and want to buy on that unique impression event. But I can think of many cases where you would be willing to reserve impressions in blocks for common data such as DMA/location, URL, site, etc. Perhaps a hybrid approach where most of the auction functions in set prices for clear segments (like keywords are to search) with special over-rides to bid for that exact impression itself based on unique data (re-targeting, 3rd party sources) would reduce the technological implementation cost and bring us closer to the end goal.</p>
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		<title>By: Advertising via Real-Time Bidding &#8211; Real Yet? &#124; CPM Advertising : CPM Advisors</title>
		<link>http://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/real-costs-real-time-bidding-rtb/#comment-3891</link>
		<dc:creator>Advertising via Real-Time Bidding &#8211; Real Yet? &#124; CPM Advertising : CPM Advisors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
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